HCSO and the Car thefts and Juvenile Racers — Freeway Traffic Control
Lt. Bryan Hermerding, HCSO, introduced his colleagues, Sgt. Mike Vai, HCSO Auto Theft Task Force and Human Trafficking Unit, and Sgt. Mo Ibrahim MPD, Juvenile Investigations Unit. The MPD Juvenile Investigations Unit just created the most recent Auto Theft Task Force. which coordinates with Hennepin County.
Quast: I’ve asked you to come in and explain your share of dealing with the kids and young adults who steal a car or a couple of cars and then start racing, committing vandalism and other crimes around the Metro area.
It seems very strange that the car thieves so often manage to get out of the way before an MPD or UMPD squad can roll up. Can they hear your communications channels?
Further, we have been told in the past that the MPD and UMPD are only allowed to give chase on under strict protocols. I believe that when the stolen car gets on a freeway, any search and chase becomes HCSO’s job. Now can you please correct my misconceptions and explain how HCSO and the MPD work together to get these kids under control?
Lt. Hermerding: I think if we had the solution to that, we could probably patent it and make a lot of money. All over the country, we’re seeing the same kind of thing: the revolving door with juveniles.
I would say that it’s not a matter of having them having our radio channel. The law enforcement channels that we use are encrypted. I believe Minneapolis’s are as well, so being able to hear it in real time is probably not what they’re doing.
Anytime we call for air support or anything like that, the helicopter and the airplanes can be tracked real time with flight tracking gear. That could be something that they’re using to see if there is air support overhead.
Quast: Where is the MPD on a chase? Where does the HCSO pick up?
Hermerding: Hennepin County does have the option to pursue people in a stolen vehicle. We tend to not do that just because anytime we have a high-speed pursuit going on, there’s a risk to the community. There is risk to not only the suspect, who is most likely a kid, who is in the stolen vehicle. There’s also a risk that the vehicle being used will smash into another vehicle.
About two years ago, we had a vehicle run over a baby carriage and a mom out walking. The juvenile driver/suspect ran into the stroller.
Unless there’s a violent offense or some other reason for us to be pursuing, we don’t. If the vehicle is just stolen and that’s it, and we don’t have any other information that these kids or suspects committed a violent offense, we can pursue, but we most likely won’t, because of the danger pursuit poses to the community, to us, and to the suspect. So we have done that in the past, but we try not to do that often unless there’s a significant reason to do so.
It’s just very unpredictable, and very, very dangerous for community members, especially at this time of year when people are out walking all over the place.
Also, when you are on the North side and South side and even here [in NE Minneapolis] those streets are tight. If somebody is walking across the street, that could be it. We don’t want that to happen. I can’t really speak to MPD’s policy.
Ibrahim: It’s similar. We can’t pursue just based on a stolen vehicle report, but if it’s carjacked, involved in assault with a firearm or anything like that, we do have the ability to chase after them. It’s got to be a violent crime that is involved.
I think that in the partnership that we’ve created, Hennepin County has been an amazing partner. They’ve actually helped the majority of the juvenile arrests in the last month or two, especially the juveniles who’ve been targeting the Northeast neighborhoods. That’s why you see a significant reduction in the damage to property cases –it’s because the partnership that we have and the arrests that we’ve made over the last few months.
We try to avoid pursuits when at all possible and use other tactics. We can wait for that driver to stop and get out of the car, we can use unmarked vehicles (undercover vehicles), we call them, to follow until the stolen car stops and pulls to the side or the road.
Hermerding: We are also able to use our enforcement cars, which are those big cars that look like they’ve been used in demo derbies. We’ll use those to pin those vehicles in to make sure that they can’t flee, and then try to take the driver into custody. Or we can wait until they go into a gas station or grocery store, and quietly go in and try to arrest them with as few issues as possible.
So that’s the way tactics have evolved and are evolving that way all across the country. It’s not just Minnesota that won’t pursue for those types of crimes. It’s all over the country because it’s just not a safe thing to do.
Quast: I have to thank you for that. Thank you very, very much.
Question (Speaker muffled) about air surveillance
Sgt. Vai: Continuing on air surveillance: The criminal element may be able to see where an aircraft is, but drones are smaller. Of course there are some regulations about them, too. You can’t just put a drone up anywhere and fly it. That is a technology that maybe is harder to detect or learn info on. It will be used by the criminal.
Air support aircraft have FFA guidelines and the rules which the operators have to follow, which puts them on most radars. State patrol-run aircraft have to put their wing number and more on the public radar, which anyone with a flight app can find.
Drones, however, do not have to do such a thing. They are regulated by the FAA, so we do have to ask for permission for many flights, depending on how high we’re going and where we want to go. We can’t just throw a drone up there because and maybe we’re putting in a flight line, but those do not have to be reported to any kind of radar or FAA system, and they do not show their location.
It depends on the drone. Some are the size of my hand and some are the size of this table. It also depends on their battery. Like your car battery, it is affected by the temperature that evening or that day. If it’s a very cold day, then we have short flight times. Warmer days, we can stay up longer. Obviously, we can’t fly any drone 24/7. Rain, snow, and other weather will keep us on the ground. We also do have tethered drones: they’re on a 20-foot, 30-foot power cord, so we never have to bring it down, but that’s for more of a stationary role.
Using them to chase a “clean” vehicle: We could, if we have the right drone, yes. We can also have one drone come down to recharge and another one take off, if we have the equipment. So in theory, yes, if everything’s going our way that day.
Question: I can’t remember if this is Hennepin or Ramsey County, but I imagine you hear that a little bit.
Vai: We get confused with the Ramsey County CAT team a lot. [Carjacking and Auto Theft (CAT) Team] The CAT team’s been around for a long time: it’s Hennepin County out there, Ramsey County out here. The best way to tell us apart is: we’re much better looking.
In Hennepin County, like you were saying, we have, we have partners that we collaborate with daily who are not necessarily in an agreement or a signed MOU or Memorandum of Understanding. Our actual task force officially is Hennepin County Sheriff’s Office — That’s Lieutenant, Sergeant, three detectives, Minnetonka Police Department, one detective, St. Louis Park Police Department, one detective, and Edina Police Department, one detective.
We’re hoping to add a couple more cities this year. But like I said, unofficially, our partners, the ones we collaborate with daily are MPD. There are another 10, 15 agencies that are with us.
Quast: Thank you, that clears up a lot of speculation!
And last agenda item:
2-PAC MUST BUILD A BOARD!
I dug up the original 2-PAC charter — the one that is on file with the MN Sec’y of State’s office. It’s strongly recommended that terms should be limited to 1 or 2 years. Covid and sequestering interrupted that, but it’s time overdue to get back on track. (ahem: I started in January of 2020 and we need someone with fresh ideas sitting in this chair — no doubt you are well aware.)
Dan Miller is already working on Treasurer’s responsibilities, but we still need people to fill the chair, veep, and secretary’s roles. I plan on staying until the places are filled, AND won’t leave new people before they’ve had time to fit the procedure to their view. No one will be marooned. New people will have other board members’ support and their experience watching other committees. I guarantee you that no single role requires years of experience. The best part is that the entire program gets the energy of new people’s ideas and energy.
Finally, two seasoned people will be standing by, working with new people to develop their strengths.
A board is outlined in the charter (not set in stone), but should include a Chair, a VEEP, a secretary, a treasurer. It is recommended that the board should have 4 additional people attending Board meetings, to offer ideas, perspectives, and point out stumbling blocks, and to step up if a position is suddenly empty.
SO: 8 people in total. Our board will also have two people I’ve dubbed “Senior Advisors” — people with experience on THIS board (ahem) or people with plenty of experience on other boards. I’ve asked Karl Smith, who is a pillar of SE Seniors, and who held leadership positions with other groups (non-profit and academic) over his career. Again, I assure you that no one will have to grope their way through on guesses and blind hopes.
Let’s see a show of cyber hands. What are you interested in trying? We can have a private meeting if we have at least a few people, and will build on that. Contact me and we’ll move on from there.
Emilie Quast, Member
MPD Second Precinct Advisory Council (2-PAC)
1911 Central Ave NE
Minneapolis MN 55418

